Opus 2026-400: Uncharted Revelation: Timing

As you come to th end of chapter 7 you should see why it is so hard, and pointless, to make a timeline or chart out of this.

End times enthusiasts like to say that this portion of Revelation refers to the tribulation.  One group says only Israel will go through it.  Lets go with that and make note the the Greek here is the one place where it mentions “the” great tribulation.  Verse 14 has them coming out of that tribulation.   If they come out of it then it is over.  You can’t have it both ways.

The last three verses clearly relate to chapter 21.  That is when the new heaven and earth are established.  Then you have a problem with the temple.  There will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.  

Which brings up the nature of the narrative.  Did John write down the visions as they appeared?  Did he write them down later as they came back to him thus jumbling the order?  Were they intended to be accepted as in order?  If the book is literal then it makes a difference.  If it is mostly figurative, then not so much.  If it is apocryphal then the options are wide open.

Might I suggest that you spend less time trying to decode Revelation and spend more time meditating on the Love Chapter?

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Opus 2026-393: Uncharted Revelation: What Part of “All” Don’t You Understand?

When we get to 7:9 we have dealt with the 144,000 but now we have another group that seems to fit into the same category.

(Rev 7:9 KJV)  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

I would assume this is a bigger group than the 144,000 and notice that they come from “all nations”.  This gets really mixed up for those who are into eschatology.  Here you have white robes just like the ones under the altar in the last chapter.  You have palm branches.  Later you have a throne, elders, beasts and falling on their faces.  The people I talk to would somehow want to make this Israel but it is clear it is not.  

As you keep reading you come across another favorite phrase, “the Great Tribulation” except for two problems.  It isn’t in the KJV and it involves people martyred during that tribulation.  What is the problem with that you say?

(Rev 7:14 KJV)  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

(Rev 7:14 NAS77) And I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

First the NASB is correct.  The word “the” is in the Greek.  Why the KJV, loved by end times enthusiasts, does not have it is a mystery.  As far as I can tell this is the only place you find the “the”.  

Second, the eschatology lovers I have met tend to be pre-trib and like to say the Great Tribulation will not involve the church because the church will have been raptured.  It will involve Israel.  These people are Gentiles from all the earth.  They are martyred during the Great Tribulation.  That seems clear from the simple words of scripture.  I guess this is another lesson in which are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

Verse 14 gives another example of the figurative nature of the narrative.  Logically you do not wash robes in blood and have them come out white.  Theologically it is a great picture but it is certainly not literal.

Read and enjoy.  Let your emotions take a deep dive.  Don’t try to make a chart for anyone who is paying attention.

homo unius libri

Opus 2026-367: Uncharted Revelation: Seals and Altars

In chapter seven we have a pause in the opening of seals.  It will pick up again in chapter 8.

Verse one has four angels holding back the four winds.  Since the four winds are a poetic reference I would assume that the angels are also poetic.  Either way the point is that God is holding back the wind.  I don’t see any great theological truth here.

Verses 2-4 give more questions than answers.  After loosing the four horses to create mayhem we have another angel coming and telling them to hold off,

(Rev 7:3 KJV)  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Then we have the 144,000, 12 from each tribe.

At the beginning of this series I said it would be uncharted but I am starting to see why people who have the final answer on Revelation need their charts and graphs.  I could use a big white board with arrows right now because things seem to be repeated and contradicting.  We have already seen the souls that were under the altar who were given white robes and told to go back to sleep.  Are they part of the 144,000 or part of the next group in chapter 7 which includes the whole world?  How come the seal is coming so late?  Are the ones under the altar sealed?

Am I the only one confused?

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Opus 2025-082: Poor Song Theology

Today in church we sang one of my favorite gospel songs, “When the Role Is Called up Yonder.”  I noticed something that I had never seen before.  The second verse goes,

On that bright and cloudless morning when the dead in Christ shall rise,
And the glory of His resurrection share;
When His chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies,
And the roll is called up yonder, I'll be there.

Sounds good until you read what the Bible has to say,

(1Th 4:16 KJV)  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:17 KJV)  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice that the meeting will be in the clouds.

And then you have,

(Rev 1:7 KJV)  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Or this,

(Mat 24:30 KJV)  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I don’t think that the song author checked the weather.  It said, “Fair to partly cloudy.”  

I still enjoy the song.

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Opus 2018-027: Forms of Government, part 4 of 5, Our Turn

Christians should have no trouble submitting to a king.  The Bible makes it clear monarchy is acceptable, but as Christian thinking developed and we had forces like the Enlightenment and the Reformation we developed more emphasis on us having an input.  What are the threads we look to for today’s systems?

Moses found that being in charge of the children of Israel was a job too big for one man.  His solution was to appoint elders who would appoint advisors, who would appoint someone under them and so forth.  Some point to this as a precursor of our representative form of government as expressed in our House of Representatives or England’s Parliament.  Later we have the Roman Republic and I am sure there are other forms of counsels that were formed to give advice or leadership.

I came across something that makes me think of the Senate.

(Revelation 7:4 KJV)  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

And then follows a list of the tribes with 12,000 assigned to each.

In this case each tribe is getting the same number.  Granted it was not two but still the same.  By the time of Jesus Judah was by far the largest and the other tribes had been hauled into obscurity, yet each one will get the same delegation. 

Having said that, these are just seeds.  The idea that the common man would have a right to vote and express a binding opinion on the ruling class was the talk of a crazy man.  Even in Athens, known for democracy, the only ones who could vote were free, male property owners.

But little acorns to mighty oak trees grow.  Or I guess you can say that a strong wind will spread dandelion seeds all over the place.

To be continued...

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